Once you get the puppy home, watch their jumping activity and their weight.
The following links will help you to better understand this potential problem.
I can appreciate what a difficult position you are in. Have you considered acupuncture? I tried it on my 17 year old standard dachshund, Nikki, when he became totally unable to walk, or even sit up do to a bad disc in the shoulder area. He was in a lot of pain and at his age surgery was not an option. After having tried rest and antiinflammatories I tried acupuncture. Although it took about 5 treatments to get him walking again, he experienced significant pain relief after the first treatment. After each treatment he'd make impressive progress. I'm happy to say he not only walked again, but he learned to run. He lived for another year and did quite well. It's worth a try . Sandy Tomezik
We used water therapy to get our dogs with problem backs back in condition. Put water in bath tub, enough to help support weight of dog, and used a portable hydro therapy water jet. We also encouraged the dog to walk in the water. The weight of the dog was partially supported by the water, the flowing water relaxed the dog and helped to restore muscle tone. Walking with, human help, helped to restore balance and was exercise for the wasted muscles. In good weather we took dog to our pond and walked with dog in shallow water. Spondalosis, is a calcification. Talked to a gal at this weekends shows. she uses shark cartilage for this condition. Don't know if it works, but she swears by it. And Yes prolonged use of steroids often causes a bloated look. Gretchen
Hi, all. Have read your posts on back problems. Sammie is not eating since Fri, not getting up, moans and his muscles shiver. To move him I put a big towel down, he sits in it and then I can take him up and down. Do you think it's his back? He's sleeping now. I've been away all w-end. Vet closed today for holiday. Need advice on pain--meds? I have some ibuprophin in the house. Just made him some rice. His nose is cold. He seems exhausted from the pain. He's 21pounds, standard, red, smooth, rescue dog of around 3 1/2 perhaps. Thanks.
Jane in RI
Jane,
Please get him in to the vet this morning. DO NOT give him ibprofen, ONLY Ascriptin. COULD definitely be his back. But it could be other things. Is he vomiting, has he been in contact with any foreign objects that he may have tried to eat. Don't go by his nose being cold, that means nothing. He may be running a fever and he needs his temp taken also. Let us know.
Cheers from Ohio,
Donna Sadlik and the Gang
Steroids make dogs feel pretty good and cocky. Don't let this deceive you either. It is a mask and they should be kept on strict bedrest (cage - rest) as this is a time period in which they can do much harm to themselves. All vets do not emphasize this either. SophieKay@aol.com
Regarding possible treatments for dachsie back problems: an interesting web site mentions acupuncture for dogs. AltVetMed (http://www.altvetmed.com), a site started by two vets to provide info on "Holistic Veterinary Medicine -- Acupuncture, Chiropractic, Herbal Medicine, Homeopathy, Nutritional Therapy & Other Alternative Modalites," has an article on acupuncture. Also, the site's table of contents links to a list of vets in the American Holistic Veterinary Association. The list gives each vet's location and indicates what sort of work that vet does. E.g., Sophie's vet is on the list. He's down for conventional medicine and acupuncture; that's an accurate brief description. He told me about the success he has had using acupuncture on one of his dachshund-patients. I hope Sophie never needs it, but I'm glad he can do it.
Carol
Hi everyone, While I have to agree that exercise is good for our dogs, I must say that I agree only to a point. Yes, they were bred for hunting, but we must realize that this was literally centuries ago. Their hunting dog history has been chronicled back as far as the 1400's. Since then, I believe that their bodies have evolved in such a way that their backs are not what they used to be. The same might be said of most other species as well, including humans.
I was told at the Univ. of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine when we lost our Velkro to back disease that it is common these days for myelogram x-rays to show calcified disks even in newborn dachshund puppies. This simply *has* to say something about how genetics have evolved in this breed. Our pet dachshunds are just not of the same structure as the dogs that were bred for hunting so long ago. For this reason, I feel it was wise advice that Velkro's surgeon gave me for our next dachshund. She said to modify our dog's lifestyle to try to avoid the "hits" that high jumping and going down one step after another in a full flight of stairs would cause her spinal column to take. If you can picture how gravity, coupled with each "thud" going down, compresses the spinal column and forces the disks closer together, it is easy to decide to try to avoid these kinds of activities in a breed that has evolved with a genetic predisposition to back problems.
The kind of exercise I believe in giving Chloe is anything and everything that does not include jumping down, or taking full flights of stairs. We do a lot of walking and running these days, and of course the game of fetch never gets old. However, it is near impossible to stop a dachshund from hopping on and off the furniture, but if they can be trained to use a floor cushion or hassock to interrupt that distance, I think it is a good thing. Also, although I do not believe in carrying Chloe around, I do carry her up and down our full flight of stairs. She is in the habit of waiting for that.
Also, as far as a dachshund not doing anything that hurts, the sad truth about back disease in this breed is that it does not seem to hurt that much until the damage is already done. Our Velkro had his short bouts of pain during which he rested, but they quickly subsided. So, he went back to his old habits of imitating flying squirrels off of furniture and beds as well as bounding down the stairway. We knew nothing about back disease in dachshunds at the time. The day he went down, he literally screamed in pain, but by then it was too late. I don't plan to use whether Chloe is hurting or not as a barometer for whether I will modify her jumping activities. I plan to do it no matter what. Barbara and little Chloe
The Dachshund of yesteryear was, for one thing, much larger than the ones we have today. Who knows what the exact disc composition was back then - I mean, like they had the technology to know. They had no clue as to the laws of genetics back then the way we understand them today. And who's to say that the amount of exercise they got *running and chasing* put those back muscles in such good shape that the back was able to withstand the high impact of jumping obstacles out in the field. And how many obstacles? Did they jump off of 3 or 4 feet tall obstacles on a regular basis? Who knows.
I have trained Winnie to use Rubbermaid stepstools to get up and down the bed, and up and down the couch. I sewed little pillows to go on top of these because for some reason she really hated using the bare stepstool (nah, who says this girl is spoiled). I don't have any other type of chair (e.g. reclining chair) that she'd want to get up on, or there'd be a stepstool right in front of IT as well.
Something could be brewing in all of our babies back as we speak, but it's not until it's too late that it actually *manifests* itself. Of course, for many it's not necessarily too late - if treated as quickly as possible, recovery CAN occur. Our breed's latest Obedience Trial Champion (Betty Chamblin's 'Brie', mini-wire) had to take a 'leave of absence' from obedience work twice, I believe, (once for sure) because of back surgery. She still managed to go down in history as the breed's 4th OTCH. (For those not familiar with advanced obedience work - jumping IS involved; mini's pretty much are guaranteed an 8" jump, 16" broad jump, I think most standards jump around 12").
the best we can do: *try* to prevent. Do all we can to see if *maybe* it won't happen. Because we all know of the many instances in which, despite a rigorous diet regimen, a sound exercise program, and all the prevention from jumping we do, one of our babies still falls prey to this damned disease. But God, how could we NOT do all we can to try and prevent.
Marivonne & Winnie (with 2 disks that we have to keep an eye on, as per last April's x-rays)
Compression of the discs is when the fluid between the discs is squeezed out usually by a jump or wrong landing that jars the dogs back. If there is no fluid left between the discs paralysis completer of partially can exists. Injections of adequan have helped my dachie with this problem Lynne Burke
Let's take the American standard dachsie. Usually it is well over 20 pounds. The European max weight is 19,8 pounds -- dogs over that size in a show ring do not very well. I've seen somewhere that 25 per cent of American dachsies are supposed to get back problems in some extent. A recent study made here in Finland gave the result that 16 per cent of dachsies during the last 8-10 years have had problems, some paralyzed, most of them not. If that lower number has to do something with the smaller size is a question I think nobody can answer just now. Maybe it has a connection to the fact that we have believed back problems to be hereditary in two decades now and kept "sick lines" out from breeding.
I will preface my comments by saying many will disagree with me perhaps but this is my feeling on the back issue. I make sure that my Dachshunds are not overweight. I make sure that they get yard time and I also try to walk them regularly although don't manage it every single day. I make sure that I buy my dogs from lines that are NOT genetically linked to back problems and after that they are on their own. I simply can NOT keep two young healthy, active dachshunds from climbing stairs, jumping up and down off the bed(although I do furnish them with a stool so it isn't so high) or jumping up and down off of footstools. I have three floors in my house and sometimes I do think about all the stairs they go up and down but my dogs jump for obedience also. You just can't protect them from everything and I can not carry them up and down all the stairs even if they would stop and wait for me to do it. We are already carrying a l6 year old Keeshond up all the stairs who has arthritus of the spine. So far I have had no problems and I knock on wood. Andi and the Fur Family
Describe signs you noticed that told you there was a problem
- tail between legs and ears down (like when they are being scolded) - stomach was hard as a rock (at first I suspected that she had an upset stomach, but the vet says she was all tensed up from the pain) - wouldn't eat, just hid in her cage
How soon after did you take him/her to the vet
- during the first episode I took her to the vet the next day - during the second episode the symptoms were less severe and I didn't take her in till about 5 days later. I talked myself into believing that she had just eaten something weird. This was a big mistake! Better to check things out right away to be sure.
Did you crate him/her and/or use steroids (and if so how long, etc.)
First incident: - immediate treatment was a sedative, to ease pain and relieve tense muscles - this was followed by a steroid shot including a high dose of Vitamin. C - the following day she received another steroid/vitamin c shot - also received about a week's wor
h of Pred-C (prednisone + vitamin. c) - complete cage rest lasted 4 weeks Second incident (10 months later): - immediate treatment was a sedative - this was followed by a steroid shot including a high dose of Vitamin. C
- did not require second steroid treatment
- received about a week's worth of Pred-C
- started on homeopathic treatment (carti-med), heavy dose at first followed by
maintenance dosage + calcium ascorbate daily
- complete cage rest lasted 6 weeks (call me paranoid)
Fortunately, I was able to catch this before she blew her back and required surgery, although I am
aware that they sometimes go straight to the blown back without having shown any warning signs.
If given the chance, would you have do anything differently?
- no stairs or big jumping
Warning: On the second occurrence Garnet's regular vet was unavailable when I took her in and the
vet who saw her missed all the signs and told me to take her home and come back the next week if
she didn't improve. I did take her home, but was still worried, so I called her usual vet at home. He
made a special trip in on a Saturday to see her and diagnosed her immediately. (I hate to think what
might have happened if I had left it another 5 days) Not all vets are familiar with this so if you think
there is a back problem, get a second opinion. (Kathy Shattuck)
Some rare back problems may be due to injuries, but I think that most are
genetic. There are too many dachshunds with back problems to imagine that
they are due to injuries. Also, if you trace pedigrees many lines seem
pretty free of any back problems.
Samara Writes:
I also need some advice for my sister... They have a I'd guess in between a standard and a mini male neutered named Cain... well Cain did something to his back and is now in pain... they're taking him to the vet tomorrow but any suggestions will be helpful for the now... Dear Samara,
If you think he has hurt his back, and obviously he is not down or this would require now and not romorrow treatment, my advice would be to be to put him in a crate and keep him there until he sees the vet tomorrow. Only out to poop and pee and then on a leash and collar. Strict supervision! That way he will not injure himself further. If no cage is available, I would put a leash and collar on him and strictly supervise his activity until he can see his vet. Same thing, keep him on rest. Our puppers, though they are the light of our life, don't always have a lot of sense and don't have the foggiest notion what is always good for them. If they start feeling just a tad better, it is off they go and sometimes this can have bad results. Do keep us posted and I hope he is O.K.
Kay
It has been the experience of many of our members that it does not matter whether Dachshunds are minis or standards when it comes to back disease. Back disease is part of this breed regardless of their weight classification. Long-bodied dogs just seem to be more at risk. However, that does not mean all Dachshunds will have a problem. It is thought that genetics plays a role in this predisposition as well. Many of our members have dogs that have lived for many years with no problems. A lot of us think it is important when buying a puppy to be sure back disease is not in the litter's lineage. Other than that, modifying a dog's lifestyle to prohibit jumping on and off furniture, climbing long stairways and becoming overweight are the things that are recommended to help your dog avoid problems. Barbara Moore
Spondylosis is an abnormal immobility and fixation of the vertebrae, in your case, probably due to a change in the tissue around it, i.e. her disc disease, calcification etc. Another words, she is probably kind of stiff, not as good movement as used to be. Yes, yes, yes, steroids can cause the puffiness you describe. Keep a close eye on her activity. I'd probably keep her caged anytime I couldn't be with her simply because #1, she has a spinal problem and #2, steroids can make her feel real good and and engage in an activity which could hurt her more. It gives her a feeling of being AOK when in actuality she is not. I am assuming she is still on steroids? For 4 weeks? That is awhile. How long does the vet intend to keep her on these? Don't be afraid to ask your vet all these questions. You pay him for this service and most are more than willing to share. I had one dog with back problems, long story, and perhaps things have changed but this is just my input. SophieKay
I did have a doxie that had back surgery but recovered 100% so I really don't know that I can help you there. We kept her on complete bedrest except for urination and defecation. Then 2 weeks after that I still kept her on bedrest with short walks on a leash in the house. Then I was told I could turn her loose. Actually, I did not toally give her freedom until 8 weeks which I know is probably an overkill but I know with people most surgery takes from 6-8 weeks to recover. I am sorry that your puppy relapsed. We never had to have ours on steroids at all since she did so well. Must be very careful with steroids as it masks the pain and makes the dog feel good and they can easily get hurt at this time. SophieKay
Here's a hint to keep Oskar occupied while in his crate or while he's restricted. Give him a Kong toy or a sterilized bone (the kind with a hole in each end) with either cheese or peanut butter rubbed inside the hole and he will enjoy just licking and licking to get the great flavor out of every crevice. It will help him from getting too bored as he recuperates! Bettie Trudell
As common as canine disc disease is in Dachshunds, one might think that surgery is often the only treatment. However, there are many alternatives to surgery which have shown to be extremely helpful in aiding dachshunds which are having back problems.
Research has shown that Ester C is extremely helpful both in the recovery of dachshunds with acute episodes of disc disease as well as in prevention of future episodes. Ester C is a specific type of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) with the acidity neutralized, so it is absorbed more readily and a higher percentage of the vitamin can be readily utilized by the body and with less side effects as regular vitamin C (the most common is gastric distress). Generally 500 mg. per day of Ester C (either in pill or powder form) is commonly suggested as a preventive maintenance dose. Ester C has shown to build collagen on the spinal vertabrae, which acts as a protective "cushion" for the spinal cord and for the vertabral discs themselves.
Herbal homeopathic medicines have also shown to be helpful. The use of a combination of Chinese herbal tablets called Liquid Amber and San Qi; along with two German homeopathics (in liquids form) called Traumeel and Discus Comp can help to decrease inflammation and pain and to help repair damage. Homeopathic medicines and herbal medicines specific for veterinary use can be obtained either through dealers of these products, health and natural food stores, and from veterinarians or other animal health care workers practicing alternative veterinary medicine. These remedies can be used alone, or sometimes with a combination of traditional steroidal complexes.
Acupuncture has also been known to work wonders in aiding dogs with back problems, both in relieving pain and in restoring function. Massage, hydro-therapy and chiropractic manipulation are also methods which either by themselves or in combination with other methods previously mentioned can give tremendous relief.
Crate rest (usually for a minimum of 2 weeks) at home for the dog is usually mandatory to prevent further injury and, plain and simple, to let the spinal trauma rest, giving it time to heal. Unlike human patients (who when told they need bed rest are usually complient), dogs (especially our active and independent dachshunds!) won't stay still and may still be distracted when they hear noises, people coming, etc. and even when in pain, may jump down from a cozy "resting place" or go running to the door, etc. Thus the need for crating. Even when taking the dog outside to "do its business functions", the dog should be on a leash, otherwise they are apt to start to roam all over the yard, risking too much activity. On the leash, the dog can be kept to staying within a small area in which to relieve itself, then carried in back to the crate. Typical dachshunds, when the medicines or other methods are doing their job and much of the pain has subsided, they think they are well and want to come out of the crate. The feel better, but are plainly "bored"! However, like humans, they think because they feel better, they are ready to jump and run and do normal things again. But be diligent in keeping them crated for the appropriate amount of time in order for the spine and injured area to heal. To help alleviate boredom in the crate, try putting toys in with the dachsie, or better yet, give them a rawhide, or nylabone to chew. A Tuffy Kong toy or a sterilized cow bone with either peanut butter or cheese smeared inside the hole area is a favorite item in the crate to help pass the time. They will spend hours licking inside the hole in order to get every bit of the treat. Your dachsie can also be brought out to lie quietly next to someone on a chair, bed or couch. Just remember that if you get up, don't expect the dog to "stay quietly" where you left him/her. By own personal experience, we learned the hard way that it's better to plop the dachsie back into the crate if you think you are going to be up from the sofa or chair for very long -- (mail carriers or people walking by the window always come at the worst times!).
The main thing to remember is that each case of disc problems or acute back episodes is different and each dog is different. Thus different methods of alternative treatments or combinations of such (with or without traditional types of treament) can be employed depending on each case of back problems. Mickey Howard
This article has been copied from the Cornell Newletter. If offers yet another hope for our "downed" Dachshunds.
When the major complaints from owners was that they couldn't follow doctors' orders and keep their dogs from climbing and jumping, then you know the operation was a success. The operation in question was not the invasive kind, but one that was performed with laser-technically, a percutaneous laser diskectomy-designed to vaporize a portion of the disk that produced crippling pain in 33 dogs studied by Dr. D. Thomas Dickey and associates at Oklahoma State University. The dogs in the study had been treated with rest and anti-inflammatory drugs, neither of which consistently alleviated pain, nor stopped the disks from herniating. The laser procedure was decided on because it already had a record of success in treatment of intervertebral disk disease in humans. Laser surgery is minimally invasive, although it does require anesthesia and the insertion of spinal needles and optical fiber at seven sites. Most important, the laser technique prevented subsequent episodes of similar or even more severe disk herniation. Dr. Dickey's report is one of the first studies to involve a large number of dogs. He and his colleagues have subsequently performed the surgery on an additional 32 dogs; one of these cases failed to respond, but the remaining 31 had no recurrence of neurologic signs or back pain. Contributed by Jean Nuss
Just read Cyndi's post about Nyssa being completely down in the rear. I think I might get a second opinion immediately. I don't want to scare you Cyndi but I just went through my Jack going completely down in the rear last March. The doctor I went to didn[t fool around with meds at all, he said the body is forgiving he you hurry. Meaning if you wait too long there is a slim chance Nyssa won't walk ever. The way the doctor explained it was they have to get the compression off of the spinal cord as quickly as they can and get the dog moving as soon as surgery is over to stimulate the nerves through the injured area. I was doubtful when he told me this, but my Jack was walking 4 days after surgery and I mean he was completely down in the rear dragging his hind legs. He is running and jumping (not that I encourage that) to this day and it has been 6 months. Please talk with your doctor and get another opinion soon. Hope this helps, if you want to talk to me some more, e-mail me privately. Donna Sadlik
In Response To Donna Sadlik's Post:
Hi List,
I too am responding with Cyndi's post in mind. Donna makes a very good point that it is always helpful to get a second opinion. If and when those two differ, then get a third. It is a very good mode of operation.
I believe each case is different and treatment must be determined on that basis, but I am here to present another case scenario that we experienced with our Velkro. He too was totally down in the rear, overnight, after his disk ruptured.
Our vet gave us a choice at the time - hospitalize him on mega-doses of steroid anti-inflammatory medications or be referred to the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine for surgery. He too gave Velkro little chance of being able to walk again without the surgery. So, of course, we opted for the surgery, wasted not one moment, and Velkro was operated on that very afternoon. While the outcome was good for Donna's Jack, our Velkro died 4 days later because of the extensive amount of damage to his spinal cord . I like to think that the surgery did not make that damage worse, but I do wonder about that. Not only was it not able to repair him, but it, in fact, made his final days full of so much more suffering.
So, there you have it, Cyndi - both sides of the coin. Would I go through
the surgery again with another dog? Hard to say...but I *will* readily
admit that I would definitely try to avoid it, if I could. However, you
must understand when I say this that we all react to things in this life
according to "where we have been."
The only information that I can help provide are sites that I have found on
the web. So here is a listing of what I have found. Hope they help.
ALT VET MED: http://www.altvetmed.com/ Gives ideas to go
along with conventional medicine (i.e. acupuncture, herbal, nutrional ).
VITAMIN C,ESTER-C STUDIES PERTAINING TO CANINE INTERVERTEBRAL DISK
DISEASE:
http://www.dallas.net/~samw/ester_c.html
I give Ester-C to my to Dachsies every day!
THE BACK DIGEST: http://www.dallas.net/~samw/dachback.html Is
pretty thorough and should really educate you quickly.
RANDA ALEXANDER'S DACHSHUND BACK DISORDER RESOURSE PAGE:
http://204.176.110.102/users/cat/randa.htm
This one just about has it all with regards
to information.
CHERRI THOMSON: http://gconline.com/users/cat/dalt.htm and
http://gconline.com/users/cat/dhealth.htm
These discuss specific back issues.
I do believe that the importance of keeping swelling down, crating the dog
and giving large doses of Ester-C is what I have found to be the norm in
all the articles I have read. If you do not keep swelling down, this
damages the nerves and eventually kills them before the back can start
repairing itself. Crating allows for healing time and the Ester-C is what
speeds up the healing time. Also, you may want to use Bach's Rescue Remedy
to help keep your dog calm while crating. This is a flower remedy you can
find at any health food store. Also, I have heard that acupuncture can
help and water therapy as well.
Also, there is a newsletter I get monthly that has really helped me better
understand my dogs and the emphasis is on nutrional health and specific
health issues. There are even meals that are aimed for helping dogs during
times of illness or meals to feed them before a surgery. This newsletter is
called, Dr. Bob & Susan Goldstein's LOVE OF ANIMALS. Their number is 1
(800) 211-6365. It truly is great and I patiently wait each month for it
to come, so I can find what else I can do for my dogs. I think you can
call Dr. Goldstein directly (for a small fee ) and get wonderful
information to help you out NOW! He also might know of a few Dachshund
specialists. His number is (203) 222-0260. He has been a vet for about 25
to 30 years.
I am trying to get as prepared as possible should this happen to one of our
two Dachsies. I have even gone so far as to say to my husband that should
one of ours demand it, I will take time out from work to help any way I
can. I you cannot leave a job, you might consider a "dog lover" to come
and give around the clock care for when you cannot be there. Just a
thought.
If you need future support, please continue to write to this list. We are
all here for you and feel your pain as well. Please keep us posted.
Daria Land-Horn
In reading the posts about Jessie's arthritis and bone spurs in the spine
Ester-C comes to mind. Remarkable results in the treatment of degenerative
diseases have been achieved by oral administration of high levels of
Ester-C. In clinical trails with horses and dogs, within a short period of
time, horses suffering from moderate to severe cases of ringbone, bone
spavin and other joint disorders and dogs with arthrosis, spondylosis, hip
dysplasia, older disc prolapses and senile wear changes showed remarkable
improvement in soundness and pain relief.
Helen
Noah's Ark Holistic Animal Resources, Inc.
web site - http://www.yesnoah.com/~noahsark/
The Dachshund
Club of America put out a booklet on Canine Intervertebral Disk Disease in
1993 which was written by Patricia J. Luttgen, DVM, of American College of
Veterinary Internal Medicine, Colorado. It can be obtained through the DCA
home page web site: http://www.dachshund-dca.org/ Copies can be requested at
no charge. Nancy Silk
Research: Drs. Foster and Smith